Nick Kalenichenko on Building Community Through Business and Ministry

RJ Caswell: Well, I'm here today. I'm pretty excited about this conversation with my friend, Nick Kalenichenko. Nick, welcome. Nick Kalenichenko: Thanks, RJ. Excited for this. RJ Caswell: Hello. Well, I'm not going to do too much of an intro because I think we're going to cover a lot in a short amount of time. In the time span I've known you, which... isn't too long. I already know you've... founded a non-profit in two companies. In like one year. So I do know you move fast. But the also thing I know about you really quickly is you love people and you love relationships. Is that is that a fair statement? Nick Kalenichenko: That's a great introduction. That sums it up perfectly. RJ Caswell: Yeah. Yes yeah It's probably not your bio, but I think it's a pretty pretty good one. So before we jump into the here and now and all the things you're working on, which... I do think you approach from a very relational perspective which is probably why we connected so well. I want to go back first. And... Back to your first job. Don't know what your first job was. But. If you could share, what was your first job? What did you do? And how old were you? Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. So this was after college. I moved down to Charlotte, North Carolina for a job in data science consulting at Ernst & Young RJ Caswell: That was your first job ever. Nick Kalenichenko: That was my first job, yeah. RJ Caswell: Was Ernst & Young. Oh my word. Okay, you got to share a little bit more about that because you jumped right into like a professional, professional setting for your first work. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. And I had no idea what consulting was at that time. All I knew is that I wanted some data science job. I got my master's in data science from the University of Virginia. So I was applying for jobs. My mom was actually. Crazy story, but my mom actually applied for this job for me when I was back home because She did it one. RJ Caswell: I'm not going to speak too much into like your generation because we're not exactly in the same generation. I think, you know, we're close but we're not the same generation. That is funny. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. It's a funny fact about how I landed in Charlotte, North Carolina. But in consulting. I had no idea what to expect. To get even more granular, I was in forensics at EY. Where we're dealing with like white collar crime of large Fortune 500 organizations. So my first projects were decently technical. I was hands on keyboard. But what I learned about consulting is that You have the people aspect and you have the tech aspect. And I didn't expect to love being between those two groups so much of communicating what I'm working on to different people but then also building out the tech myself. RJ Caswell: So... let's Let's take that a little bit further. So your your first role was after your master's in data science now It's probably not fair of me, but when I think of data science, I don't think... high relationship high interpersonal skills. But when I think of Nick, I do think of those things. So tell me about that path for you. Did you notice any of those inconsistencies or was just you just had a love of people and data? Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. I... have always been Actually in college, I was a huge people person. Loved being social in my early days like middle school elementary school I was very shy and introverted Actually. So that's where... I got into software development through my dad he was kind of gently nudging me into that direction And I hated it. I knew I didn't want to do coding. And then. Slowly over time, I got my undergrad in statistics. And with statistics eventually they started incorporating some coding classes Because... your coding to make business decisions or to help understand the data more and I really Loved that piece of it. And then. After or during the master's program and I was applying for jobs. It was like, okay, it makes sense to. To go into some data science role. And I was expecting more of hands-on keyboard the entire time. I didn't. I didn't know what to expect in a first job. So I had no idea if I would have liked coding for 40 hours a week or what that even looked like. So it's hard to have a baseline against that. What I knew is I love technology and building And coding was. Something that I grew to love at that time during that master's program it was very RJ Caswell: Did your dad ever come back and say, I told you so. Nick Kalenichenko: And... Not exactly. RJ Caswell: In a kind one. Nick Kalenichenko: But he probably would. It's something you would say. But it's funny how like that that turned around and or post in college. RJ Caswell: So... Yeah. All right, we're going to go back again because... Typically, when I ask that question, that somebody's first job is usually a little bit earlier than postmasters So I think you have a unique. Unique journey. And this... And this question actually might not take us back. It could take us to last week. It might take us to... 15 years ago. But it's another question I love asking. And it's... who was the first person, and it doesn't have to be the first person, but typically, who was the first person that... really believed in Nick and who you were before you believed in yourself. Nick Kalenichenko: The first person. RJ Caswell: Or helped you believe in yourself. Nick Kalenichenko: The first person. RJ Caswell: Or as far back as you can remember. It doesn't have to be the first person. It's a loose question. You can you can take it where you want to. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. It's a great question. I would have to say. I think it's a pretty generic answer but it has to be my parents. RJ Caswell: I don't think that's generic. I think that can be powerful. So to unpack that a little bit. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. Yeah. I would no matter what I did and growing up I was a perfectionist. I'm the oldest child. So everything I did, I felt a responsibility to do very well. And through that was whatever I chose to do, like tennis or playing the trumpet or piano. My parents were there to support me and help me. Do it to the best of my abilities And then even when I was applying for colleges. I... like studied for the SAT, took all those tests. And then my parents were like, okay, well. You have good grades. You have a good SAT. Just apply for the one school that you want to get into so I only applied to the University of Virginia. And it was like almost like delusional. Like looking back, it's like only applied. RJ Caswell: I don't think many college counselors would advocate for that strategy. Nick Kalenichenko: And I was really tight with the college counselor from my high school. Also context my dad's from Ukraine So there's also like a big cultural difference between. That thinking where it's so logical matter of fact It's like, hey like you you're doing well I believe in you to write these essays and to get into this school. Let's. I... Let's just apply it at the one school that you want to go to and see what happens. And then I got deferred from college from the University of Virginia. And then. After that, it was like, okay. RJ Caswell: Did you know at that time or did your parents know? that UVA is just one of the most... competitive application admissions processes in the entire world. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah, we... It was like the best school in Virginia. And because I was in Virginia with in-state tuition, there's like a higher... chance of me getting into the school. And. It was a question of okay it's going to be a stretch but we can do this so they were like supporting me through that application process and through school with grades and extracurriculars and pushing me to challenge myself to apply to UVA. RJ Caswell: But then you got in obviously at some point. Nick Kalenichenko: And then I got deferred. I applied to a few more colleges after that. I was like, okay, well I need to get accepted somewhere. So then I applied to Virginia Tech. And ODU. So I applied to two more universities after that. And. I got accepted to UVA and then went there for the undergrad and masters. RJ Caswell: Undergrad masters, and then then on to Charlotte, North Carolina with... Ernst & Young as a as a consultant. But along the way, you also... believed in the power of community and relationships, and you founded a nonprofit. So how... What had happened up until that point for you to go? I'm gonna start this thing, or I'm gonna be a part of a group of people that start this thing. And I'll let you share what Kingdom Kickbacks, which is the name of the nonprofit. Is the genesis of it. But there's got to be something from your story that led led you to that. Nick Kalenichenko: I totally fell into it Like I accidentally became. There was no intention in the beginning of this becoming a nonprofit. And it stems from... My heart for young adult Christian community a large part of my testimony is finding that community in college. And then finding Jesus through that. And that experience changed my life like having people to do life with you, Bible studies, encourage you. Was so countercultural to my first two years in college. So that was... a huge blessing for me and that's where I met Christ. So then post-grad. You don't have 20 something year olds around you at all times to do life with. So then... You have to be more intentional about finding those circles yourself. And of course, the first place that you look is church to find that. The church that I was going to didn't have that didn't have a built out young adult. Christian community. So it was very much so. You go to the church service. Then afterwards because of parking constraints everyone's out the door at the end. And. It was frustrating, especially because I was traveling a bunch of my first two months here. Like gone for different trainings or for work as EY Job started. And. Because of that, it took me like two months before I popped to a different church that had Bible study that I got invited to. And they had more events going on and that's where I met friends and that same kind of community to do life with. It took two months, which felt like a long time. And then because I was church hopping a bit in my early days of Charlotte. I... like I met some people at these different churches and then We hung out. All together like with people who've never met each other before because they were used to hanging out in their own individual church circles And then. We met up at. It was some... I think it was like High Wire Brewery. Where it was just like hey let's play some board games there and hang out And it was a blast. And then we hung out a second time. And then even more people came. And then... My friend Kelsey said, hey. We should really start a group meet for this, making a more normal thing. I was like, alright, let's do it. So then her and I... started this group meeting. And then her roommate. Like we're thinking of names to name the group chat And then her roommate came up with the name Kingdom Kickbacks. And that's... Where it started. RJ Caswell: It stuck. It's stock. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. Stuck around, catchy name you know People think that it means financial kickback sometimes. RJ Caswell: Well, we are, in Charlotte is a banking city, so there's probably maybe more of that here, but even across the country, yeah, kickback is not. Typically looked on in a in a favorable light. So how did y'all, what's behind the name for y'all? Nick Kalenichenko: For young adults, Kickback has a very informal... name of Just like hanging out, kicking back with friends, like relaxed environment. So that's where we're playing on words with Kingdom Kickbacks. RJ Caswell: Love it. And so... So really this informal founder of a that ended up becoming a true nonprofit, a 501c3 nonprofit and really was built out of a need for community. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. And we started incorporating more. We got into a structure where we're doing a social event. And then we're doing a worship night and then a community service event every month. And those three events became our staples of consistency of people can expect us to do one of those three events a month. And then. Out of are. Well, to protect, we had a pickleball tournament and to like protect us from any kind of people suing us if they get injured or something like that coming out. RJ Caswell: That liability thing, yeah. Nick Kalenichenko: Liability That's where... Yeah, we've actually. We were at LLC. At that point. It's like, how can we quickly spin something up? to legally protect us for this pickleball tournament. And I was their legal guy and still somewhat am. Turning the LLC into a non-profit was crazy with IRS and all those tax filings. But then we realized, hey. We're actually much more aligned with a nonprofit than an LLC. So then we switch it to that. And then since there's just been getting more structure around it and thinking through how we could like sustain it sustainably sustainably Keep. Kingdom Kickbacks around. Even if. Us who are who founded it or ran it in the early days move cities or life events happen? Like, how can we make sure that people who are moving to Charlotte. Still are able to find that community. RJ Caswell: And First of all, yeah, obviously I love... that y'all are already thinking that way, way past yourselves. But for you personally, Being on the ground floor of an informal gathering of friends that you met but trying to give that to others. What's that tension been like from building a framework and systems and processes? Organizationally versus maintaining the roots of... making sure people are connected and have community, have Christian community in the city if they move here. How was that? How has that been for you personally trying to navigate those tensions? Nick Kalenichenko: It's a hard question. Something that. We have one of our members who's on the board now, but she was helping us in the early days run it. Her name is Juliana. And... She helps remind us all the time of remembering the one person who's showing up, doesn't have friends. Who doesn't know anyone in Charlotte who's coming to Kingdom Kickbacks event for meeting someone new. And. It is tricky for me to think through because as we naturally grow and have more people coming to our event. How can we still bring that intentionality to the one person who's in that situation? and make sure that they are feeling welcomed at our events and that they're meeting new people because people have social anxiety. So it's like how can we break down all those barriers or cliques that form within groups So that those people feel welcomed And. I guess a solution. I'm also a pretty logical thinker. So some of my solutions. Could be a little more logical. But we have some volunteers like We have a fantastic volunteer team who are helping us run these events. And. One of our volunteer roles is minglers. So their role is if they see someone coming alone or they see someone kind of standing by themself. Like that person will get walked up too and then brought into some other conversation or introduced to someone else. So that there's never that awkward Period where you're standing and like, okay, what do I do now? Everyone's talking to other people around me RJ Caswell: Which we've all experienced at one time or the other. And I would say, It probably happens at church, maybe more than it happens other places. So maybe there's a way to start training some some church leaders in... greeters in that as well. But I love that. You're trying to create that system so somebody feels connected. How is that? So know knowing you founded this nonprofit, you moved to Charlotte, you're with a consulting. Organization. And then you started your own company with with a friend, a colleague as well, which is a technology company called Alyra Technology well We'll drop both Kingdom Kickbacks and Alyra down in the in the show notes for folks to find you. But what was the difference there to the leaving consulting? You've already started and founding one organization. It's a nonprofit. But now you're founding another company. Has there been similarities, differences from posture to thinking to outlook? How has that been? Nick Kalenichenko: That's another great question, RJ. I learned a lot about myself through these two endeavors. And. It's pushed me both personally and in development as a person and making me critically think through like, what do I value? And where should my time be best spent? when My business partner, Will, approached me about Alyra Technology. I actually said no in the beginning because I thought I was at capacity of time. With a full-time job and with Kingdom Kickbacks, which is growing which I wanted to Pour more of my time into. And then... Will, he's one of my best friends. So at the time he was like, okay, well, what about like two hours a week? That's all you have to give. RJ Caswell: He was working on you already. Nick Kalenichenko: He was like, well, what about two hours a week? And then we like start growing this on the side. And then... I was like, okay, sure. Like, let's do two hours per week and then It started with us like watching videos about how other people build companies. And I was learning all this stuff for the first time. And it was it was a blast. Like I loved it similar to Kingdom Kickbacks where it's like thinking through how to structure ourselves and How'd you? Be intentional with like our leadership team and our volunteers. It was similar, but extremely different. I would say that the Nonprofit is harder than the for-profit. RJ Caswell: I'm going to actually tag that somewhere if I'm holding on to that. But tell, share more. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. Yeah. I think that with nonprofits when... you It's harder to... make revenue or have money especially when you're relying on people donating their hard-earned money to you. It's just like And everything comes down to relationships, even with a business in AI or you have to earn someone's trust before they could contract you out or hire you to build some solution that's going to help them. It's like case studies help like with AI and with this business to help gain that trust quicker. And then introductions help a lot there But the same thing is for the nonprofit where it's like your relationships with different local churches or with different companies leaders. Because we're stewarding the money that they're giving us to spend well and to make sure that it is having an impact aligned with our mission and vision. But then when you have And I'm still learning all this stuff, so I don't have the answers for this. But it's like a board of directors. It's all volunteer-based. So then how do you... Get them involved in what's going on versus a for-profit has like employees who are getting paid to do specific job function. Just like a little bit easier when you're in control there But. They both have their challenges. And just learning all the time. RJ Caswell: So quick follow-up on the business side with you and Will founding and running Alyra, because obviously you went from two hours to 40, 50, 60 hours over that. Over that span of time before jumping in. How have you maintained a focus on relationships on the business side? for you and Will, what you're trying to build. Nick Kalenichenko: Relationships are everything for that business as well. I'd say like the first third of my day is spent with either coffees like back-to-back coffees or meetings of getting introduced to new people. Referrals is our primary channel of new clients right now since if you do good work and you'll get referred to more work. Or if someone sees what you're doing from an outside perspective, then they might introduce you to someone who... could be useful or could benefit from the services that you provide. So. Having relationships is still key for the business. And I think that I've had to get more intentional. About like time blocking for that but then you still have to do work at some point in the day So it's like you can't just have these coffee chats. The entire day. So that's something that I have been thinking through and trying to figure out what that best balance is there. And yeah, I think. And your original question was? How do relationships play into Alyra? RJ Caswell: So... so then Let's fast forward five, I don't know, five years, seven years for Kingdom Kickbacks, for Alyra, for this. I know you started another company of as well. What does that look like for you personally in five years and for those organizations? Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. Another great question. I think with God, you never know what the next one year is going to look like. So I might have an idea of what five years looks like, but. Everything. I do I hold with open hands and See where the Lord leads and what doors he opens or closes? because you never know what he's gonna close. And my whole heart posture behind it is. If my identity is in Jesus and not in my work or what I do. Then. I want the tech company to be God's tech company not something leading, asking God to bless. I want the nonprofit to be God's nonprofit and God's work in Charlotte where it's not me controlling the different outcomes but it's like him working through the ministry and doing his purpose. So. If they both shut down or stop or something terrible happens in the next like even one year. And I'm no longer involved in them or something happened, whatever the circumstance hypothetically can be. And it's like, how would I be personally? like would I be okay with that reality of what I built is no longer where a majority of my time is spent. And for me, it's like praying that my hands can be open enough where I know that God's just leading me to the next thing and that the doors will continue to open and then whatever purpose he wants. Will continue to be carried out. For right now, it's like how can we like for Kingdom Kickbacks in five years, we're thinking through. If we've already seen and heard so many stories of how it's impacted young adults in Charlotte. Through people finding community husbands and wives people getting connected to different nonprofits and then serving there outside of our events that we do with them. How can we... continue to help more young adults had that same experience. So we've talked about city expansion. And that's something we're going to be talking through at our board retreat this next weekend. So. We have some fun. Exciting ideas there. And then for Alyra are. Team is growing internally. So it's just like thinking through what do the next. What does the next phase of business look like for Will and I? And Yeah, it's hard to answer that five-year question. RJ Caswell: Well, I'm privileged to be able to follow along. So what we'll do one in a couple years and see what it looks like. So one other. Quick question, maybe it's not quick, I think it'll be quick, before the final question, because we're almost there to the to the big question. You and I, before we hit record on this, we're talking about you're starting to meet with even people younger than you that are already starting companies or moving to Charlotte and trying to figure out work and community. So as you look back and reflect, what advice are you giving them or would you give? Somebody who just graduated college and moved maybe not Charlotte, but a city and are looking to figure out how to build community relationships and balance work? what would you share with them? Nick Kalenichenko: My biggest piece of advice is to stay curious. My curiosity. And asking people good questions will open so many doors. Just like be genuinely interested in who you're talking to. And then... Don't try to expect something in return. But just. Pick their brains, just ask questions, learn what they know and then that will lead to you having like more people in your circle who have your back, who know you and then That'll launch you further than you could ever imagine. RJ Caswell: Be curious. I love it. That's great, great advice for all of us. So now... We're winding down. It's the final question. It's the big question. So... It's Friday night. There's no Kingdom Kickbacks event going on. There's no games you're deciding to hang out by yourself not with anybody else. And you have nothing to eat. So you go to the grocery store. And you got to go down there the cereal aisle. You know you have milk. What's What's the pick? What is Nick Kalenichenko? What cereal are you picking? for dinner. Nick Kalenichenko: I am picking. Drum roll. RJ Caswell: We'll put it in there and post edit somehow. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah, there we go. Catalina Crunch. Cinnamon. RJ Caswell: Oh. Cinnamon Catalina Crunch. You know what? I don't think I've actually ever had that. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. I hadn't had it until about a year ago. It was on sale at Costco. It's like some protein cereal and I tried it I was like this is great. RJ Caswell: That might be, if we aggregate all these in a year, if I if we're able to keep doing episodes, that might be the only one. Their picks. Cinnamon Catalina Crunch. I could be wrong. Nick Kalenichenko: People have got to try it. People of God at church. RJ Caswell: But we've heard it here. And so that's awesome. But Nick. Thank you. Thank you for joining. I really appreciate who you are and what you're leading in our city. So thank you for being here. Nick Kalenichenko: Yeah. Thank you, RJ. This was awesome. Thanks for having me on the podcast.